Yio Remote Community

Kickstarter stretchgoals unfair?

First of all, i have funded the project and this is my first time using Kickstarter.
Yesterday i joined the livestream.

But -maybe my own mistake- i read Open API and was looking at github and noticed all repo’s. So i was assuming it was completely open source. Maybe not open-hardware but open enough to modify things in the future. But yesterday they told us that is not really the case.

They are thinking about a stetch goal to make this happen.
I find this rather strange. You start a project and you calculate the money you need to make it happen. They already reached this by 300% (300000)

Now they can just make up any number to reach this goal (say about 400.000). This is not based on anything but just to make more money.

I appreciate the work of the guys to created this project. It takes a lot of work. I do not mind if they are making money of it.
But afterwards settings a new target feels a bit cheap. I am thinking about unfunding the project. Certainly if it will not reach this target.

You can’t unfund, once committed you are in.

No experience with Kickstarter. So i am not sure when the “you are in” part is. I understand you can not quit when the project is really started. But on Safabaton i see reactions like “canceled their pledge”. Probably also the last time i fund any project :slight_smile:

…but strechgoals after starting a project. They feel to me like: “sign this white paper please, we will add the price and the rules later”

I’m sorry that it was not clear that we’re starting from scratch with this new version. We have completely redesigned the whole software and with the open API, you could already do a lot of customisation.

We came up with this idea to set a stretch goal that is very close to the current state, so it’s likely that we reach it and we open-source the two apps we mentioned. We would like to do it, so it’s more symbolic that we announced it as a stretch goal.

Sorry, but you might have a misunderstandig here as well:

We do not change the Goal that we initialy set. This isn’t even possible with Kickstarter!
We just add a mark in the counter, if this is reached, we commited to open source this. That doesn’t mean, that the complete goal is changed and the project will not happen anymore.

As Marton has written as well, we will not set it as a high hurdle that seems to be not reachable.

Thanks for being part of the Journey! We do believe in that Project!

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English is not my native language. But, it is not about the open-source part of this discussion. I’m sure we will reach it. (it already reached the goal it seems)

My point is that this goal is set aftwards (AFAIK?). Normally you set all the thresholds before starting a project and make calculations. (100.000 = and we can deliver, 200.000 = and we can XYX). But now we are pulling a number out of the “air” to make it open source. And that feels a way to just “make more money”. But AFAIK it was a hidden “internal” number. So maybe that is the part of the confusion.

We did not have any stretch goals in mind at the beginning. However as we talked with backers, the idea of a stretch goal came up. Obviously we cannot set a stretch goal back in time, so we decided to set it to a symbolic target and give something extra (open-source) to the backers, who trust us and support us. At the end the idea of stretch goal is that you’re adding something more to the rewards. That’s what we did.

I think it’s pretty normal with Kickstarter projects that stretch goals are announced during the campaign, based on feedback. I sincerely don’t understand what is wrong with this.

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Congrats on taking the jump and trying out kickstarter.

Just a few comments:

  • “OpenAPI” is just an standard for APIs and means you get machine readable documentation of the API so that you can interact with it and write integrations e.g. have home assistant talk to the remote. Like Marton mentioned already, it means you can easily interact with the remote programmatically which is miles better than most remotes offer. “Open” isn’t equal to open source or open hardware :wink:
  • Its common for stretch goals to emerge during the funding period of an project based on backer feedback and what is possible. When you start you don’t know how popular (read funds available) an project is and therefore the kind of stretch goals can be very different. Keep in mind that they are intended to get more people backing or/and to celebrate the backer commitment. If an stretch goal is set too high compared to popularity then it is meaningless and may actually put off backers.
  • you can back an kickstarter project which is just an indication that you would like to participate. You are only getting charged once the funding period finishes and that is the point you are expected to commit with no option to get out anymore. That means you can back an project and ask questions and decide if you continue or cancel based on the responses (both technical content and soft skills related like speed and thoroughness) until the end of the funding period without risk.
  • with kickstarter I’d always advocate to get your hands on every bit of information about an project to have the best chance to know what you are getting into. Don’t make assumptions, ask questions.

For myself the stretch goals mentioned so far are great and fair because they improve the project substantially and are hopefully achievable without undue risk added to the delivery of the project or future sustainability.

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you will get what you pledged for (*subject to the usual caveats associated with kickstarter). stretch goals have literally no impact on what you were willing to pledge for other than to add more on top of it. you pledged for a remote with x and y capabilities. because of stretch goals, you are likely to get a remote with x, y and z capabilities. how is that a bad thing?

i don’t understand this complaint. at all. keep doing your thing @marton and team! looking forward to it next year.

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